The last couple of weeks I have been reviewing cryptocurrencies that try to do things differently and have been working throughout the long outdrawn bear market to actually deliver on their promises.
One of the things that really stand out to me and that I find immensely interesting are the projects that are changing the way consumers are treated and rewarded. Since the internet era the biggest companies on the planet have evolved their earnings model from having to pay for a product or service to giving their product or service for free but monetizing the customer itself in the process. At the birth of this model it seemed fair and perhaps it was, I don’t expect companies to deliver anything for free, but in the subsequent decade it has evolved into an ever intrusive character. Something that is evident in, for example, the way Facebook has been getting in the news in the recent years.
There is a high possibility that it changed this way due to the continuous pressure of having to show better yields every quarter to your shareholders. Understandable but not sustainable, and more importantly, not in the best interest of your customer in any way imaginable.
Where we initially looked at these companies with a sense of amazement and awe, we now look at them with a sense of distrust and in some cases even fear. We are afraid of how they use our data, if they are spying on us and if they are selling our information to the wrong people and/or companies.
Freedom of expression seems to get decimated with every year passing, seeing content creators getting demonetized and even censored and expelled. Besides that, the distribution of income seems to be unfair, with the content creators getting only a very small piece of the pie for the content that they actually created, while the platform that does nothing but host this content gets the biggest share. At the same time content consumers are getting bombarded with advertisements, even more frequent than on cable television, and are in no shape or form rewarded for their time spent on the platform.
That’s why I’m so thrilled to see platforms like Steemit, BitTube (see review here
) and Cent come to fruition. Initially Bitcoin, and cryptocurrencies weren’t invented to deliver these kind of solutions, but it seems to be one of the most exciting use cases being realized. Not only does it help in making an economy less dependent on (central) banks, large institutions and governments, they also help in changing the way we look at how we should spend our time to make a living.
The entire 40 hour workweek - slaving your time away so the top CEO can make an extraordinary living while the bottom 90% can just get by - system is heavily due for some change. Ultimately I understand that top level businessman deserve more because they have more responsibilities, more pressure and, in most cases, are more skilled, but I also believe this system is in place because most of us just don’t know any better. this is how it has been for a very long time.
In recent years we have seen a switch to entrepreneurism and solopreneurs, mostly because of the opportunity of the internet and being able to reach the entire world from every place on the world, but in a way they still rely on sites like Google, Facebook, Instagram etc. to get some attention and get a % of that traffic to their own site and make the sale there.
But what if everything you put out there actually is monetized from the start. What if you don’t have to give the biggest part of those earnings to big companies only hosting your content. What if you could make a decent living solely on the income that you receive from the content you create from the start, not after reaching an arbitrary amount of followers. What if people watching and consuming what you put online decided what the value is.
A worldwide, 24/7, free market of skills and productivity. Get rewarded (and judged) for what you get out there.
There we go, the intro is a bit long and I hope I didn’t lose you in the process, but that is what Cent is trying to achieve, or better yet, is achieving.
Blockchain is enabling, or maybe even forcing social media in a new direction, where the content creators and consumers not only decide what is valuable but where the most valuable content is rewarded the most. The best content gets watched/read/viewed the most and gets the biggest rewards. Content consumers can share the content and get a part because they get the content distributed further. It’s inevitable that this way of social media 2.0 is where we will go and how we will revolutionize the concept.
“Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.”
As Charlie Munger would say.
Why would content creators and consumers not go towards the platform that gives them a fair cut? Coincidentally I read today that the biggest Youtuber Pewdiepie, who has over 90 million Youtube subscribers, has seen the light and is thinking about switching to a blockchain based videoplatform.
Amazon charges a 50% cut from channel subscriptions on their Twitch platform. 50%. Fifty Percent. For hosting YOUR content. Oh and BTW, the government will take another 50% of that, thank you very much (well at least here in the Netherlands).
Of course people will flock to different platform where they will receive almost all of the revenue created by their own content. It’s simple economics. But people will have to learn about the possibilities.
So, ahum, again, CENT
the social media platform based on Ethereum – have to stay focused
I will refrain from diverting from now on. Here’s the quick rundown of how it all started.
Cent is a Dapp build on the Ethereum network. Founded by two guys that have a rather different background. Max Brody has a background mostly focusing on design and Cameron Hejazi had a software background working at an advertisement bureau.
Cameron learned first hand how the advertising monetization model works and detested it. Max wasn’t happy with the lack of possibilities for freelance entrepreneurs. Both were looking for a fair alternative model for content creators to earn an income. Both learned about, and loved, cryptocurrencies. They met each other, it clicked and boom – a new team and business was born.
In essence Cent is a social media 2.0 platform. There are no ads to be found. Instead content creators are rewarded by the quality of the content they deliver, and content consumers
are rewarded by spreading said content and ranking replies to bounties.
Let’s start with the bounties.
Cent has a vision where everyone can make an income online by getting rewarded by the skills they possess. Let’s say that you just wrote a book, the writing is done, however, you still lack the cover image. You put out a bounty on the cent platform giving away 20$ worth of Ethereum for the person that can create the best cover image. A couple of designers give it their best effort, and at the end someone is chosen to be the winner and receives a large chunk of the bounty. Not all though. Other people on the platform are incentivized to rate the cover images so a winner can be chosen. 20% of the bounty is reserved to these people for the ranking process (disclaimer – these rates can differ at the time reading this review, it’s mostly to help you understand how the gamification works).
In the end this means that a couple of designers had a shot at getting their work out, got a platform to show their designs and were rated for their effort. Someone earned the large part of the bounty and the original provider of the bounty has a cover image for the book. That’s not all though, they also receive the information of what the crowd thinks is best, in essence a very valuable market analysis.
Raters receive a part of the bounty for their effort as well and everyone can look at the entire ordeal as a success, and worth their time.
So far bounties are found in a vast array of possibilities and subjects, ranging from logo designs to product reviews to just wanting to receive some interaction on their posts. The first bounty I received was a tiny amount of Eth simply by replying with my twitter handle because someone wanted to create a list of ‘Centians’. Quite literally the sky is the limit here (within the legal possibilities of course).
The bounty system works and it is the way Cent started. The founders quickly found out though that not everyone is willing to place bounties on every posts they create so they developed a seeding system.
When people seed a post they give a bit of money to the original content creator but also receive a part of the money that gets injected by people seeding the same post after them. What they essentially do is bet on the future potential of that post thinking that it will get traction, and more people will also seed that post after them. People generally will only seed a post because they value that particular content. Be it a review like this, a picture a meme or whatever, so the content creator gets instant valuation on what he or she creates.
What it also does however is create someone that is now invested in this post, hoping to receive a part of the next seeders income by spreading the word. The gamification is terrific and it creates fans of certain content creators, but more importantly creates an entirely new breed of content consumers. Essentially ‘content-scouts’ looking for the next awesome post that could go viral.
The entire thing works on top of the Ethereum network, and the entire financial aspect can be handled by using a web 3.0 wallet like Metamask which works as intended.
As you can probably tell by reading the review I am pretty stoked by the entire idea, especially since I intent on delivering quite some content for years to come. There are however a couple of negatives that have to be addressed.
I have to start with the amount of traction the platform has generated so far. I know it’s still very early but looking at Twitter, Reddit and Telegram stats we are looking at a very small (but dedicated) group of people. This also means that the amount of money earned from bounties and seeding so far is tiny. This of course can grow with more attention but it also poses a risk to fully get invested in a platform where it remains to be seen if it grows to their potential. They aren’t the only social media disruptor that I have encountered.
It’s also a risk to have the entire platform build on the Ethereum network. I still am on the fence of the future of Eth, it could remain to be the most stable to run Dapps on, but what if we have another surge in attention and traffic and the network gets congested. What does that mean for Cent?
Besides that the platform isn’t fully decentralized and utilizes a combination of Cloud storage and blockchain technology to run. Decentralization maximalists might object to that idea, but for me personally that isn’t a big issue so far. If another projects manages to let this function in a fully decentralized way they might lose market share though.
And lastly the design of the platform isn’t really beginner friendly enough. After a while I managed to understand what everything meant and what every button does, but I did have to read multiple help pages and how-to documents. For the average ‘crypto- and social-media-nerd’ it might be easy to figure it all out, but the platform would really benefit from displaying popups on hovering over the icons.
Some of these downsides are nothing more than that. However, especially the dependence on Ethereum and whether or not Cent will get the needed traction will determine if this platform succeeds or get’s left behind.
Personally I really feel that they have a good chance of luring in more and more people with the extremely interesting gamification of creating and consuming content. And this will be key. They need to grow the amount of users to ensure the content available is wide enough for more people to check on the platform, in turn increasing the amount of Eth available for bounties which in turn will increase the incentive for posting content resulting in more traffic. If done right it will be a self-reinforcing loop. I will definitely continue posting my content on the platform, interact with the Centians that I encounter and report on any major changes of the project in the future!
That concludes this review! If you want to add anything or have questions, please feel free to comment below.
Are you feeling generous, and did you enjoy this article? I accept donations!
Connect with me on twitter: https://twitter.com/BullishOnCrypts
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On Steem: https://steemit.com/@jmartojo
You know, at first I hated the Deepweb. It was slow and I didn't really like paying with currency that I didn't trust. But this changed everything. And with everything I really mean every fucking thing. submitted by
"Fuck that, she's not even attractive man. " I listened to Zaelig with disbelief. " Why would you pass on her? You've been chasing that pussy since eight grade or something! You know what this smells like? Like a chicken. BOKBOOOOOOK! " Zaelig seemed to be trying to get his act together on the other side of the Skype call while I was looting a dead zombie in the game we were playing together." You know what dickbutt, you're on your own. I'm gonna browse the deeper webs for some grade A molly for this weekend. " " Dude, the fuck? We are in the middle of the game?!"
I heared a door open through Zaeligs microphone. " Zaelig! Why are you on these websites again!? " By the voice I could tell it was his father. And he sounded pissed. Zaelig is a genuine good guy, and we've been friends for most of our lives now. But he is.. How should I say this. An adrenaline junkie? Lately it's been experimenting with drugs. Before it was shredding waves together. And his newest experiments involved the Deepweb. Let's just say his Japanese father told him it was dangerous in his - awesome- broken English. " You know computer can die from websites right? " " Dad, come on. This isn't even a weird website. It's like an online market. " " Pha! Online market. You have offline market around corner here! Do your homework and stop slacking Mr. Zaelig. " I heard the door closing with a dull sounding bass sound. " Dude. I need to go. He is going to murder me if I don't at least get a B for my history classes. I'll text you later. " Before I could even make fun of him because of the situation that just unfolded on Skype he closed the call. I played the game some more and at around 1AM it was time to hit the sleeps.
" WWWWW-WWWWW. WWWWWW-WWWWW. " For a second I thought I died and was on my way up to heaven but slowly I saw the bright light in my eyes was coming from my phone. It was 2:34 when Zaelig texted me.
Zaelig: broooo. Listen. I just found this ducked up website on my laptop on tor. 💪
Me: Dude. It's 2:35. I got class first period. 2 morrow K bye
Zaelig: Jake listen
Wake the fuck up. You really need to see this.
😠😠😠😠😠 wake up
Me: Are you retarded or what the fuck is so important on ur precious deepweb
Zaelig: Grab ur laptop. You still have tor right? I'll send u an onion link thru mail open it and text me when u did. This is the craziest shit I've ever seen
With a bit of feelings of aggression towards this sometimes mentally challenged friend of mine I turned around and grabbed my MacBook from the ground. For a second the startup sound startled me, fearing my parents or sister would wake up by the sudden sound.
Me: Ait. Wat do you want me 2do
Yo. Don't tell me I grabbed this shit for nothing Z.
Fuck face with yr Fkkn pranks. Ur getting ur ass kicked tomorrow.
The next day started out slow. Because of this midnight adventure Zaelig took me on, after he decided that he was not answering my texts anymore. We don't have classes together on Tuesdays so I looked for him in the canteen. There he was. Face buried in his laptop at one of the tables, sitting alone. It wasn't really Zaelig like to be sitting alone, given he was quite popular. I walked up to him to confront him about this midnight BS last night.
" Erhm.. DUDE. The fuck was that all about last night man. These jokes aren't funny. " He didn't even move to look up to me and continued to what looked like frantically searching something on his screen. Then all of the sudden he seemed to snap out of it and looked up with this look in his eyes. The look he has when he A: found something out of this world or B: was in some deep trouble. "Do you have bitcoin? " He asked. " No, you know I don't like using that stuff. What's going on man?" Zaelig closed his laptop and looked at me as if he found the Holy Grail.
"I found the sickest website ever. Like no joke dude. I tried having you see this shit last night but my connection fucked up and my texts weren't getting through or something. " Zaelig told me the sickest-thing-ever phrase a lot, so I wasn't really too impressed yet. " Alright, what's so sick about this new discovery of yours. " I said with sarcasm clearly being the lead tone in my voice. Zaelig smiled. " Ever wanted to be in full control of someone's fate? Like let's say you can torture, kill or do whatever with someone who for example killed a kid or whatever. I found this website hidden within other websites. It was a freaking maze but I wrote down every click I did to be able to find it again. It has this one page with a live feed of a room and a bitcoin donation button to get like HD image and this one person chatbox where you can get in line for telling the moderator your one idea to do to the person in the room. "
I stared at Zaelig in sheer terror. " Zaelig Takoma, what the flying fuck man. This isn't funny. "
" Do you think I could make this up Jake? I was as shocked as you are now when I found it. Last night I was there and there was this guy tied up in the room and blindfolded. The voice in the room assured us he was deserving this treatment for he killed another man. The voice said something about this treatment being more effective than our justice system. So like when it was my turn to choose what the guy should do to him I said shoot him, as like a test. The people before me had the guy punched, kicked and spit on. I thought of it as an experiment, but the guy in black actually shot him in his leg. It shocked me so much I shut down my laptop and went straight to bed. "
I think it took a solid three minutes before I could even get my mind around what Zaelig just told.
" I-.. This can't be real man. Tell me this is one of your shitty jokes and we can go on with our lives. " Zaelig looked around as if he had something to hide, and then quickly turned his laptop towards me. I saw it. Every freaking thing he said was true. There was a bloodied, wet looking blindfolded man in the middle of this small basement like room. The camera seemed to be hooked up to the ceiling facing downwards towards the man. A big slider text through the screen popped up every few seconds: "BACK SOON. CHOOSE HIS FATE. 21 PEOPLE IN LINE. "
" Holy fucking shit. " That was pretty much all I said for the next five minutes while Zaelig tried to convince me to come over to his house that night and see what this was all about. I don't clearly remember what I did for the rest of that day. Probably because I was shocked of what I just witnessed. All I remember is I called in sick at school and went home early to play video games and get my mind of this sick ass shit.
That night, Zaelig texted me again.
ZAELIG : DUDE.
THIS SHIT IS SICK 😮😮
Like this one person had his chance to say what the dude in black had to do to the tied up guy
And he said puke on him
He actually fuckng did it man
I couldn't believe this guy was still on that fucked up crazy live feed. It was around 9pm and I was a little calmed down about all of it by then. Zaelig actually had me curious about the whole thing. This couldn't be real right? This had to be staged. My curiosity got the better of me and at around 9:30 I rang Zaeligs doorbell. "Dude I knew you were intrigued like me by all this. I'm fourth in line right now. Some people had him punched and another one said he should have a bucket of vomit poured over him. "
The man looked battered. A big open wound had blood dripping out of the top of his head. His white shirt was stained with blood, vomit and sweat. He could barely sit on his knees out of what looked pure exhaustion. A guy dressed in full black and a hoodie that obscured his face paced back and forth. All of the sudden a devil like voice spoke and it seemed to come from the man dressed in all black. '' Next in line. Make your choice. Remember; this man murdered an innocent person. He should be punished. '' A text popped up on the screen like when someone donates money to his favorite Twitch streamer. '' Kick him in the face with your bare foot. '' '' Alright, number 591. Thank you for your input. '' The black dressed man started taking off one of his boots while the so called murderer was visibly crying. The anonymous martyr stood up, and walked around the helpless man. In one swift move the right foot connected to the face of the man. Because of the brute force he fell backwards, flat on his back. You could hear him scream in pain, muffled behind his taped up mouth.
Zaelig looked at me. '' This is crazy man. We are next in line. We have full control over his fate now. What do you think? '' I was stunned. After seeing the wounds on this man, the kick to the face.. It became more and more clear to me that this was real. This was happening right now somewhere on our planet and we had control over what happened to this man. '' What if this guy isn't a murderer? '' Zaelig looked confused after I asked him this question. '' Dude ofcourse this is a murderer! Why would anyone do this to an innocent person man that's too sick. The guy in black said that he murdered a young teenager. He can't get away with that shit, and now we have the power to do something about this. Fuck the law, we can give him the punishment he deserves. Death. '' I've never doubted myself more than this particular night. Why on earth would I want someone dead? But if it was true what the all black guy said, then he deserved death. Right? To this day I don't know what happened exactly but in the end I agreed with Zaelig on his plan. '' Next in line. Your call. Make your choice. '' Zaelig looked at me. I remember I could only nod, because my mouth was as dry as a desert on a hot afternoon.
Zaelig started typing. '' Shoot him through his skull. '' I think my heart skipped a beat here. The anonymous martyr walked out of sight, loaded a handgun and aimed it at the head of the blindfolded man. '' Your choice number 592. Thank you for playing ''. I've never seen someone die. Let alone see someone get shot through the head. In some way I still think of it as a way out for the helpless guy. And end to his misery.
The way back home I cried. In bed, I cried. I felt weird and could not for the life of me come to grips with the situation. How did I end up choosing to end someones life? Sure I didn't aim the gun to his head and pulled the trigger, but in the end we chose his fate. After the man was shot, the stream went to black with a text saying: '' See you tomorrow. '' Zaelig and I were shocked about what happened and we agreed to never tell anyone what we saw. After this. My life changed forever. The next day at school I could not for the life of me find Zaelig. He wasn't at school and wasn't answering my calls or texts. I thought he was just still too f-ed up because of what happened last night so I went to see him at home after school. '' Hello sir, is Zaelig at home? '' Mr. Takoma looked at me confused. '' Hello Jake, no Zaelig left for school this morning. He no school? '' I left and mumbled something about him probably being at the gym but deep down I knew something was wrong. That night I was in bed thinking, worrying and texting Zaelig. No response whatsoever. Then it dawned on me. The stream. It said see you tomorrow. I watched closely last night when Zaelig backtraced his steps to the stream so I thought I would give it a go. I never made it to my laptop on my desk.
You know, now that I look back on it it all seems so obvious. I think it's nice in some kind of weird way of the hooded man to let me use the phone one of the viewers wanted me to have to write this story. Zaelig died a day ago. A viewer decided he should die and he got beaten to death by a chair. After the hooded martyr untied my blindfold to write this I saw that Zaelig's body was still laying next to me. We murdered a man, so I guess we deserve this. The room seems smaller in real life though. This will be my last post ever on Reddit, asthe next viewer ordered to cut my throath. The only thing left to say to you guys is never use the deepweb. At first you are looking at firearms and in a few accidental clicks you are deciding your own faith. Bye guys. Tell my parents and sister I love them. Stay safe and delete your history and cookies after reading this.
boldninja submitted by
i think i'm gonna forget about bitbay and keep it dr10
hi brendan brendaneich
nice to have you here :smile: boldninja
hi Brendan - thanks for joining us today brendaneich
happy to be here @boldninja tranzer
hi @brendaneich , I have a question regarding BAT. Will you have limited number of tokens or will you have inflation? When do you plan to start ICO? (edited) michaelthecryptoguy
Hello Brendan. Nice to have you in the ark community slack channel mward
the ironies of old age. you can afford the sports car you dreamed of as a kid, but your back hurts too much to sit in it. dr10
Will Mozilla- and Chrome-Plugins be usuable for Brave browser? Will Brave Browser be able to sync bookmarks? mike
hi brendan cannabanana
is the BAT token just an ETH asset or will it be a new blockchain technology? if the first, why ETH instead of your own block chain? :smile: (edited) brendaneich
@dr10 two questions, first one first jonathansampson
@dr10 Chrome extensions are supported today
, I wrote a short walkthrough on how we (I'm an engineer on Brave) test extensions before adopting for official support. https://blog.brave.com/loading-chrome-extensions-in-brave/
Happy to answer any questions you may have. (edited) brendaneich
1. Brave on laptop/desktop uses chromium and we support chromium extensions, but curate them into our own S3 from the Chrome Web Store ah, there is @jonathansampson on to second q jakethepanda
@brendaneich How will Brave detect bots designed to give fake attention? (edited) brendaneich
2. Brave's client-encrypted sync is in beta now, if you use iOS i can connect you with the devs to get a beta build. it works between laptop/desktop systems already, and is coming up in Android too @cannabanana BAT is an ERC20 token on Ethereum. we need smart contracts and benefit from multiple token launches proving the tech and approach no desire to do our own blockchain mward
The BAT wallet will be implemented in Brave browser as a plug-in? brendaneich
we are pragmatists, use bitcoin already in Brave for auto-microdonations cannabanana
will you only accept ethereum for the ICO or will you also be accepting bitcoin? brendaneich
@jakethepanda please see https://www.reddit.com/BATProject/comments/61kw7f/question/dfxkuus/
reddit Question • BATProject
We have answers, you may not be surprised by them: 1. Rate-limiting. Bots can fake human ad viewing (see https://whiteops.com/methbot
), but we'll... @mward no, deeper integration than an extension (plugin still is overloaded for old-style stuff like Flash) can have brendaneich
@cannabanana ETH only, as BAT is an ERC20 token -- we are not launching a new exchange or anything, so other currencies have to be exchanged to buy BAT boldninja
When do you plan to start your initial token offer, will there be any hard cap? jakethepanda
@brendaneich Is this right? Users opt into the BAT system and get paid for their attention. Advertisers pay for ads with BAT. Through a smart contract, BAT is unlocked as users give the ad attention. The unlocked BAT is split up between users, Brave, and publishers. brendaneich
@mward we have BitGo provided bitcoin wallet integration in Brave already, ofc the wallet is on the blockchain not in Brave but the deeper integration is for the private, "chartbeats in your browser" auto-microdonation analytics, and the anonize.org-based ZKP protocol over VPN to communicate your donations w/o loss of anonymity or fingerprinting via the list of your top sites
@jakethepanda that is the goal but doing it with real-time BAT flow is in the future, the "Apollo" (or Mars mission) space program phase; we're in "Mercury Redstone" rn, monkeys in buckets on parabolic paths nt91
When is ico brendaneich
@boldninja @nt91 we haven't announced the date but will very (very) soon, just getting logistics and final audits done
@boldninja cap is $15M of ETH so we have to pin the ratio close to launch given recent vol. dr10
How will you get Brave Browser to the masses? Any marketing campaign you like to sum up? Any bigger announcement or plan? jakethepanda
How is the split determined between users, publishers and Brave? brendaneich
@dr10 we are growing, mostly organically right now, under 1M MAU but we will (in best case of crowdsale) spend more to growth-hack, which is advertising + funnel analytics / retention analysis loop tranzer
@brendaneich don't know if you have been following tokencard ICO, but they had kind of a fuckup with their smart contract, also they didn't give their address of contract literally before it started. How will you go about this? Will smart contract, address be known beforehand? brendaneich
an important point: if we hit cap we will found a trade group for attention apps and get other apps on board to use BAT and help us get to scale faster with buy side of ad-tech system, also with bigger donor cohorts via membership in trade association nt91
Once launched how quickly isit likely to join the exchange brendaneich
@tranzer we followed that closely, it was Not Good. we are using a super-simple contract based on FirstBlood, Golem, StandardToken mward
How will you make the crowdsale? Like Gnosis? (Dutch action) The BAT token wil have fixed price at the time of ico? brendaneich
@nt91 can't say, not our biz and we are building the "in game" economics first so exchanges can come any time brendaneich
@mward fixed ratio of BAT for ETH fixcrypt
@brendaneich will all the tx recorded on eth blockchain, or will you manage some sort of payment channels? dr10
Do you plan to integrate decentralized VPN or Tor-Like stuff? Your browser is really fast, will these things slow it down? Or didnt plan any of this? brendaneich
@fixcrypt all on chain, no preselling, no funny stuff -- we believe in simplicity first, given all the experience in this space mike
would you be interested in using a different blockchain to eliminate all the overhead of paying such a huge network of computers on ethereum to each process every single contract on each computer? (edited) cannabanana
I hope you guys will reconsider accepting more than just eth for the ICO. I have not been able to invest in any of the past like 5 good ones. There's a whole segment of people who wont touch ETH. tranzer
@brendaneich how many tx are we talking about? 1 each time there is a basic attention detected? (edited) brendaneich
@dr10 we are going to do Tor private tabs, see https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/wiki/Brave-Tor-Support
GitHub brave/browser-laptop browser-laptop - Brave browser for Desktop and Laptop computers running Windows, OSX, and Linux
we will make it possible to pick a region for exit node from Tor relay network -- so you can unlock region-locked videos, e.g.
yes, Tor slows things down and Tor private tabs turn on fingerprinting protection, turn off most JS, etc. -- that's a good thing michaelthecryptoguy
Very Nice!! brendaneich
@mike i'm a pragmatist and will use whatever blockchain is big enough, robust enough, has functionality we need (smart contracts, ZKP anonymity coming along, etc.). Zcash adding token support this fall, i hear. we don't multiply risk by jumping on bandwagons whose wheels are still off :wink:. we do not try 10 hard things at once -- space program from monkey in can to moon
@cannabanana we are launching an ERC20 token on Ethereum, you buy with ETH, we are not an exchange
the few launches whose contracts hardcoded a bitcoin address were launching exchange-like projects, so could take the risk
we are not doing that
@tranzer i heard :wink: twitchard
What do you think the adoption function for BAT looks like. Do you think there's a critical mass at which adoption will drastically speed up? Or do you think it is more gradual brendaneich
@fixcrypt no, in early phases of BAT program we cannot put each attention event on chain
obv. the chain is too costly, also: not anonymous! big tracking prob fixcrypt
we build in hybrid fashion
Brave already has anonize.org v2 ZKP integrated
requires centralized but open source accounting server fixcrypt
ah yes make sense brendaneich
we'd like someone else to run that (escrow, also could add exchange to fiat as publishers like being paid in fiat) dr10
Can I visit websites, that block Users, that use addblock? Is there a way to work around this? Currently I use brave browser and some pages block me, because of using addblock. What is your solution to this or do you think these website will change their behaviour? brendaneich
if we can do server to client remote attestation (see https://www.npmjs.com/package/secureworker
@dr10 That's a bug; let us know which sites are detecting Brave as an ad-blocker, and we'll file Issues on GitHub. We're constantly making improvements in this space, and recalibrating as necessary :slightly_smiling_face: brendaneich
eventually it should all decentralize but that requires the blockchain (a
blockchain; could be red-headed lovechild of Ethereum and Zcash lol) to do anonymity and microtransactions both very well fixcrypt
so payment are done on blockchain, but it basically validates on a daily basis a centralised payment channel between all stakeholders mike
like the chart on ad percentages of sites in the whitepaper. I've noticed for a long time the mainstream news sites are the worst to go to, a literal assault on the browser visiting them - have avoided going to them as a result, think you're on to something to mitigate this. dr10
I visited a german boulevard magazine www.bild.de brendaneich
bild.de makes my eyes bleed dr10
so normally this wouldnt be the case?
yeah its just an example lol
because I know they block addblock people jonathansampson
@dr10 I'll file an issue immediately! brendaneich
@dr10 we get around forbes, wired, latimes, many other anti-adblockers michaelthecryptoguy
Will these be done on a multi - channel? brendaneich
publishers who put up such user-hostile dialogs tend to lose alexa/comscore share
gotta catch up on the Qs
tell me if i missed you fixcrypt
no pb tranzer
Haven't used Brave yet, might try after today, but is it same memory hungry as Chrome is? twitchard
concerning the ICO - will there only be one? meaning all 700m coins will be distributed through this initial $15m ICO (meaning $1 will net you about 46BAT)? sorry if I'm misunderstanding some of the info you've put out in asking this dr10
What if I want to support Live-Streams (twitch) or youtube videos by watching their ad (which is not part of the brave system) Can I still turn off this mechanism? brendaneich
@fixcrypt yes, we buffer automicrodonations over 30 days of your uptime (varies by user; if you go on vacation those days don't count) and send Anonize ZKP votes (one per voting session, all over VPN) to our accounting server, along with the total bitcoin per 30 days you pledged. this goes into settlement wallet, the votes go into accounting db
we want to decentralize this as noted, just repeating in case anyone missed fixcrypt
decentralize this will be hard, maybe when segwit is enabled on bitcoin, but ETH, i have no idea (edited) brendaneich
@michaelthecryptoguy sorry, what did you mean by multi-channel? jonathansampson
@dr10 You can track the bild.de issue here: https://github.com/brave/browser-laptop/issues/6758
(Thank you again for reporting) (edited) fixcrypt
i think decentralizing everything is not always the best solution brendaneich
@tranzer we use less memory than chrome by virtue of ad and tracker blocking but we have some bugs to fix pre-1.0 (which i think will be in june) -- i use brave on all OSes, also use a bit of other browsers to keep up with joneses but i've cut back and tried to live in brave. on macOS i am still bugged by mem use (i'm a tab hoarder) and some lag bugs but we are on them -- will fix this month! michaelthecryptoguy
one blockchain ledger with multiple transactions, instead of being signed one at a time (edited) brendaneich
@1nfinite yes, selling 700M, floating 300M on side for user growth pool (100M), trade association, team, and future reserve 1nfinite
so 70% to ICO and 30% for team / user growth? Sounds reasonable (more than gnosis :joy: ) moobox
this is great to talk to brave devs - pls to make websites look like this: http://i.imgur.com/00mQ8mc.png
@fixcrypt you could be right, centralization or let's say trusted third parties have existed since at least agriculture (10K years?) so we as pragmatists must consider some -- but we don't like "trust me" / "don't be evil", we prefer "trust Math" / "can't be evil" michaelthecryptoguy
then the last transaction is added to the blockchain dafty
what failsafes are planned to stop bots (eg, running selenium) from mocking a real human and gaining bat tokens? how do you know a user is actually a user? jonathansampson
@moobox We will support themes in a future release, as well as extensions to modify page presentation. If you have any favorites, please let us know :slightly_smiling_face: moobox
thank you sir michaelthecryptoguy
to improve the cost of using eth network dr10
There are lot of small companies, Twitch/Youtube content creators which live by ads. These ads aren't yet part of the Brave-System. Will there be a smooth transition? Can I still turn off the brave-mechanism and watch these ordinairy ads, to support individuals or are they forced to switch over to Brave? fixcrypt
@brendaneich trust the code that can be hacked, or trust the people that can be evil… Make your choice. DAO vs Banks brendaneich
@michaelthecryptoguy yes, we must batch -- at first in-browser. auditable open source required, verified builds if OS/toolchain support them. there is a level of endpoint software trust in any attention ecosystem but part of the trade association idea is to standardize stuff, including ZKP and VPN rules for submitting the private ledger to the blockchain or equivalent, also auditing requirements to use BAT cannabanana
I trust bitcoin but I don't trust bitmain is not evil brendaneich
@moobox are you just asking for a dark theme? on our roadmap moobox
well this is a plugin for firefox that swaps out all website colors - nothing like it for chrome yet except an ugllly one brendaneich
@tranzer yeah, GNO didn't sell enough IMHO but i'm not on team so won't throw stones -- just sayin' as observer mward
Why only 15M$ max? Don't you think the ico will end very fast? moobox
i am just hoping maybe some person sees it and says "i want that too" tranzer
@dafty did you see the reddit link above? besides real (costs money, boots on ground; we're evaluating Blockscore rn) KYC, we have rate limits in mind based on humans, and flow limits so a compromised real user or convincing fraudster can't get $MMs of BATs from friends and family and then pass KYC to send off to a mixer cannabanana
:trollbounce: not to mention two of us are in the bay area brendaneich
start with in-game economics, no exchanges 1nfinite
any chance you'll incorporate certain requirements for investments above xx number of Eth for the crowdsale? to prevent 20 big players from buying up the whole thing? axente
How are you guys legally setup? Swiss foundation? jonathansampson
@moobox We have heard similar requests from other users, and are eagerly working towards a release that supports both theming of the browser, and styling of the content. Let us know if you have any other ideas/requests :slightly_smiling_face: brendaneich
add KYC on publishers getting donations (done in prototype form in Brave using bitcoin rn)
add KYC for users wanting to withdraw -- this also means rate/flow controls fixcrypt
@tranzer well the only point would be to use ark as the payment network, instead of ETH, i don’t see any other interaction. Also maybe make brave agnostic enough so people can choose their network payment brendaneich
but for many users the opt-in zero-knowledge ad revenue is not enough to withdraw and they'll donate it
you can net-zero your monthly spend: make ad rev on non-top-20 sites, donate to top 20
I should add we want to start with user-private ad channels, like WeChat
we won't put ads on publishers's slots without their consent and partnership
some will come fast but bigs will be slow
so we're looking for user private ads: in separate tab, wechat-like bot, fullscreen channel, etc.
these can pay most rev share to user
still rate limited, no couch potato as a service lol dr10
what about the twitch/youtube question? How could this work out? brendaneich
@dr10 we've always had a design that denotes payee with URL including path to youtube/twitch account, not just domain name
but we start with domain name for beta/MVP
will get team on twitch/youtube in coming months, it's hot topic
everyone wants it, we're just busy (24 people now)
crowdsale will help
can hire more to parallelize a bit dr10
so you are working on a solution to pay off individuals within the brave-system, right?
@ yt / twitch brendaneich
@mward we debated cap on basicattentiontoken.slack.com and consensus was to keep at $15M -- but a few still suggest raising or no cap, much concern about fast sell-out and whales buying too much mward
yes, that is my concern.
look at gnosis distribution.. brendaneich
@tranzer yes, i'm on Ecma TC39 and still active / consulted mward
you need a lot of small investors, not whales dr10
When you implement Tor-like stuff. Can I also Download stuff via ToVpn? just using the Tor-Tab to download brendaneich
@1nfinite we aren't going to change the contracts, in third audit currently. we can't really limit whales who have tools to buy from lots of addresses
@axente we are not swiss but looking at tax optimization structures pre-launch; brave is delaware (US) c corp; trade group would be 501c6, need to pass IRS muster so that is many months after launch axente
Oke thanks 1nfinite
got it, thanks. So will there be a cap for how much can be donated per address? brendaneich
@fixcrypt code is hacked, security never done; no silver bullets. but people are easier to hack and hack themselves lol dr10
Is the brave browser running in a sandbox like chrome? dafty
how are inappropriate ads handled on the network, is there some form of reputation system for advertisers? brendaneich
@mward GNO sold too little, cetaceans eat too much agreed. GNT sold more and we can't find on-chain huge buys
@dr10 use Tor private tab, yeah jonathansampson
@dr10 That is correct. brendaneich
btw does everyone know Brave supports magnet: and .torrent now via WebTorrent integration?
@dr10 yes, we use chromium with the same sandbox -- had to fork electron hard (twice) to do this, btw. Slack uses unsandboxed chromium renderer processes :disappointed: tranzer
I think I'm sold on brave today will definately try it out jonathansampson
@tranzer Awesome. Let us know if you have any feedback! brendaneich
@dafty we haven't taken any ads at all yet so start from clean slate. no exchanges, ads bearing malware get thru, also https://whiteops.com/methbot
fraud on sell side steals revenue by putting real ads into fake slots clicked by fake users whiteops.com Methbot | White Ops Digital Advertising Security. Enterprise Security Solutions. Bots are bad for business; we're bad for bots. (4kB)
our plan is to go direct to agencies who get ads from brands
our ads are opt in
no surprises for our users who want and expect baseline Brave to block djselery
@brendaneich what are your feelings about IPFS? dr10
Will the Paying/receiving of tokens in the brave system be easy to understand for non-tech people? Is there some kind of tutorial or easy buttons or something like that? This is a total new environment for people. You have any plans for "educating" people or making it easy to use. Like a browser-integrated Balance? Easy overviews? brendaneich
if you opt in, you can start with light touch but to get BAT out you must KYC
@dr10 have you used Brave Payments (beta) yet? the support is built in
usable UX tranzer
will you need to do KYC also if you transfer to Brave and after that decide to put it out on exchange? brendaneich
we are moving (with new name, not "Payments") to second beta with Stripe as partner for users to fund automicrodonation wallet without seeing bitcoin dr10
I have it installed and browse with it, but it is not taking me by the hand. I wouldnt know whats going it. I will look deeper into it. brendaneich
@djselery juan DMed me and we chatted about their JS implementation following WebTorrent into Brave -- it could happen. couldn't take the Go impl :wink:
@tranzer if you buy BATs as investor, no KYC -- just send ETH to token contract once launched, get BAT back dr10
Maybe implementing something like a tutorial when starting brave browser would be nice. I am thinking of people who dont know any of this stuff and are not interested into researching it a whole lot alexius89
@brendaneich are there partnerships with any exchanges (Bittrex, Bitshares etc.) planned or already confirmed after the crowdfund has ended? geezee
@brendaneich you should accept ARK :smile: :smile: brendaneich
@tranzer if you are a user of Brave after we launch BAT and have it integrated, and want to opt into ads, no KYC at first but the funds (to which you will have multisig custody, similar to bitcoin setup with BitGo wallet today in Brave for donations) flow in API-keyed and browser-automated fashion toward the accounting server that settles donations behind the anonize barrier
@tranzer if you want to send BATs from your wallet to other destinations then KYC needed
@dr10 go to Preferences / Payments; the Coinbase buy widget integration is US-only and a bit much for average users, wherefore our Stripe partnership
if you have BTC already, you can just fund your wallet and start
we have pinning (Patreon in the browser) in 0.15.2 now
so you can support sites with x% of your monthly budget whether you browse there or not dr10
Will I earn more then I pay, when I chose to accept to watch these ads? brendaneich
@dr10 you don't have to pay at all, you can just earn
both donations (currently and in future) and ads (still to come, after BAT launch) are opt-in and separate dr10
so basically what you say... the average dude can earn money just by browsing? It will be of couse small amounts, but better then nothing fixcrypt
@brendaneich on a business model side, is Brave team earning directly from this (ie part of the revenue redirected to the team for further development)? tranzer
Will bat have finitive coins and nothing added after few years or is there some subsection where you can increase token numbers via smart contract in the future ? brendaneich
@fixcrypt we are selling 70% and 30% floats on side. 10% is user growth pool. remaining 20% is reserves for team, bat.org (shorthand for basicattentiontoken.org; also have attentiontoken.org, attentioneconomics.org) and poss. user growth reserve dr10
what if nobody choses to donate to pay money to the ad-publishers/BAT. doesnt the concept break down? I mean many people just want to earn. They watch these ads and get money. brendaneich
@fixcrypt biz model for Brave is not fundraising, though -- that's mostly burned down as non-recurring engineering, marketing (ads and growth hacking), etc.
biz model is small percentage (currently 5%) of automicrodonation gross, and larger (maybe 15%) off gross ad spend
these will be public numbers, we want transparency
if we do user-private ads, 85% of rev could go to user
part of Brave's brand is a set of promises: your data only on your devices in clear; we don't track, or store cleartext; rev share to you for opt-in ads at least as our share. fixcrypt
@brendaneich i see some maintenance with regular upgrades from chrome and advertisers relationship, so it needs a regular funding from transations i agree. brendaneich
@dr10 if everyone free-rides then system collapses; note this is risk today on Web, without Brave (which is small-share browser)
on Web today you can use a strong ad blocker like Brave, or Chrome+uBO+Disconnect.me fixcrypt
also will the revenue from donations will be contractual on the blockchain? cannabanana
do you have a contingency plan in case of critical ETH failure in the future? brendaneich
@tranzer contract is super-simple, we are making 1e9 BATs, no plans for more. can subdivide, expect appreciation but then use mostly as medium of exchange and unit of account, not store of value. don't want everyone hoarding. as with real world economies if everyone saved the system would collapse michaelthecryptoguy
for example the double spend issue like bitcoin had dr10
What are your arguments for people donating for ads/keeping the money circulated. Why shouldn't they just cash-out their money?
Can you tell me an example of how much I would earn by browsing an hour? What is it depending on? Is there a good example to tell to people? tranzer
How are you going to counter exchange BAT price fluctuations? We all know tokens are highly volatile can go up 200% in a day or fall 50% in a day. How will you determine how much is someone paid ? Will you use USD value at time of contract with publisher / advertiser? cannabanana
@brendaneich wouldn't it be better to have a better distribution of BAT tokens during the ICO? currently in our environment with ICOs which have been selling out instantly is that there are like 10 whale ETH investors who get all the coins and hoard leaving out like 99.5% of the people who would have invested. (edited) dr10
Dont know if I missed it. How much BAT will I get for 1 ETH? fixcrypt
@tranzer agree volatility is something advertisers don’t like (edited) brendaneich
@fixcrypt good q about transactional on blockchain, we do it all on bitcoin blockchain currently. we want transparency
have i mentioned ad tech is full of non-transparency, price gouging, etc.?
Digiday ‘A proverbial black box’: Open-exchange auctions have a transparency problem - Digiday Demand-side platforms are unclear about how supply-side platforms charge their publisher partners, and they can't tell if a bid price is inflated. (199kB) Yesterday at 6:00 AM
@dr10 we haven't pinned the ratio and won't till close to launch date in view of ETH volatility
we are raising $15M equiv dr10
tranzers question is good
like to know that too brendaneich
@cannabanana global war, giant meteor impact, etc. -- "exiguous circumstances" -- leave us with no good alternative, i mean this in deep civilizational sense. BAT launch will be least of our concerns. Short of these, the risk to Ethereum is low. could have primal flaw in design exposed. would have to rebase on another blockchain -- would be hard, tons of risk
catching up... cannabanana
do you guys even believe in blockchain? tranzer
Rebase to Ark :trollbounce: cannabanana
ok, nm. brendaneich
@tranzer can't volatility hedge yet (gamma hedge) as far as i know -- anyone know diff?
@cannabanana i believe in blockchain -- as with standards, the great thing about blockchains is there are so many :stuck_out_tongue:
@cannabanana we see no whalesign in GNT; if you mean GNO, see above. they sold too little cannabanana
well I also believe but not in ETH so you are basically only allowing ETH believers to partake in your project michaelthecryptoguy
Wow!! You are doing great @ brendaneich :goodjob: In the dedication and effort department! ::ghostfaceuk_node: (edited) mward
@cannabanana you can simply exchange btc to eth for ico. After ico ends and you have tokens, sell them for profit :trollbounce: cannabanana
and many projects recently "sold out" within minutes by 2m equivalent single transactions
@mward I wont ever buy any eth ever brendaneich
@cannabanana we are not religious about it, as noted above: tokens on Ethereum are proven tech (still young, mistakes and latent bugs, risk for sure but less than alternative token/smart-contract platforms). we are using Ethereum for smart contract based tokens and that's it cannabanana
that's not the point
you still must believe in it if you are only accepting eth brendaneich
@cannabanana did you actually check "many projects" to prove whalesign? we looked at some and aside from GNO couldn't find it cannabanana
:slightly_smiling_face: g/l brendaneich
@cannabanana we believe stuff, yes; have to believe to get up in morning, do anything cannabanana
i've been following altcoins since 2013
yes, i've seen them sell out in minutes brendaneich
but we are not Ethereum true believers in some zealot sense cannabanana
then why not accept bitcoin for the ICO
because of hte risk you said. brendaneich
i will say ETH price rise is scary; but EEA (JP Morgan -- federal reserve founder!) backing Ethereum is huge mike
i had a very bad experience with HEAT using Ethereum, still have to pursue it to track it down - time consuming so have put it off. Used an online wallet, jaxx, i think, since installing and waiting days for blockchain was a lot more than i wanted to deal with. Maybe there are better alternatives now. cannabanana
sorry man, didnt mean to hijack your ama brendaneich
@cannabanana accept bitcoin how?
hardcode a bitcoin address in the token contract?
Zooko's XCAT scheme?
it's cool but no thanks
we will not multiply risk (odds ratios) of independent events
that's a good way to die cannabanana
wow you are a jerkoff man
I just wanted to invest in your project
but wont touch eth brendaneich
i was at a startup before Netscape (MicroUnity), talked to Jim Clark when I got to Netscape. said "we were doing ten hard things at once that all had to work for success" and Clark said "odds were 1e-10!" cannabanana
good god, good for you man 1nfinite
way to be respectful @cannabanana - just because of some feud you have with ETH, too brendaneich
@cannabanana i'm not the one calling names here techbytes
let's not digress... stay on topic please brendaneich
i do like XCAT, check it out. cross chain atomic transactions 1nfinite
thanks for the transparency here and taking the time to answer our questions @brendaneich brendaneich
i think i'm over time
did i miss anyone's q? dr10 dr10
What are your arguments for people donating for ads/keeping the money circulated. Why shouldn't they just cash-out their money?
Can you tell me an example of how much I would earn by browsing an hour? What is it depending on? Is there a good example to tell to people? brendaneich
@dr10 thanks dr10
np :smile: tranzer
Thanks brendan for answering all of my questions - good luck with the project I'll be sure to participate brendaneich
if people see ads and cash out, the ad business is working and perhaps it dominates moobox
thank you for answering my questions also brendaneich
today's web relies mostly on ads, few paywalls and they convert poorly
i have a feeling with automatic, anonymous microdonations and payments we will see more of that and less reliance on ads
but cannot count ads out, for sure mike
any chance of eliminating the KYC so people can just withdraw their BAT and trade it? brendaneich
@dr10 comScore had a figure of 100 page views per user per day devin
Bitcoin is to slow mike
i don't see where kyc adds any value for the users. tranzer
@mike you won't need KYC if you are just going to trade as far as I got this (edited) brendaneich
assume we partner on one ad per page (just for easy math; i don't like this model and think user-private ad channel with one ad per day
might be much better)
100 ad impressions per day, 3000/month, if $3CPM that is $9/month twitchard
Is there some way/what do you think would be the best way for developers interested in advancing your mission to contribute? brendaneich
if we put the ads in user private channel and share 85% to user, that is $7.65/month to user
$3CPM is low figure dr10
CPM means? mike
like the idea very much over all. noslawxtrafries
cost per impression I believe brendaneich
it's an ad cost model: Cost Per Mille (Mille from Latin for 1000 impressions)
video ads pay more; not just CPM but CPX for X = watch a video by quartiles; watch to end; click on download promotion after end (usually game ad) mike
so KYC is just to withdraw to fiat, but to withdraw to an exchange or another wallet is unrestricted? brendaneich
@devin yes, bitcoin too slow; no privacy either (edited) devin
I want a project that accepts both brendaneich
@mike KYC is required or fraud kills the system faster than regulators (who will kill it too) (edited)
@devin there are projects doing this but they are "upstream" of ours dr10
What are your 3 major arguments for mass adoption of Brave Browser. - Some Slogan you would give to magazines, etc. brendaneich
Fast (3-7x, see next link), Private, and you get paid for your attention
but remember we want the 501c6 trade association if we sell out. BAT is for multiple apps mike
have you looked at Blockstack for ID as an alternative to KYC? brendaneich
more than Brave
@mike yes (I know founders and saw them recently); that doesn't help dr10
yeah but Brave will be the flagship of BAT token, right? Or any other big vision planned? (edited) brendaneich
@dr10 Brave will be first, yes
eventually everything here should be a standard
nothing's proprietary twitchard
Could BAT be implemented as a plugin/extension to other browsers? (Would it be more practical to fork?) (edited) dr10
good question mike
or is KYC just needed for a threshold to withdraw above. it does seem there would be a pratical limit of how much organic ad traffic a user would be exposed to. brendaneich
blockchain, ZKP, even functional specs for KYC, definitely payments -- all should be standards used by lots of apps and services and people
@mike please find "rate" and "flow" above ryano
Dpos is probably the best consensus approach for things like this devin
@brendaneich thanks brendaneich
@twitchard BAT in extension is unclear as extensions have limited APIs, and often must be loaded from a store that has rules
kik got thrown out of iOS app store for doing its own payments some years back
CWS kicked out Ad Nauseum mike
i can see where someting is needed to mitigate clickfarms in low wage regions. brendaneich
i'm half hour overtime so have to go soon
@mike yes, and sybil attacks to route funds to a mule
stuff like that ryano
Thanks for your time Brendan twitchard
Thank you brendaneich
np, it was fun (except for the jerkoff thing :-/) tranzer
Thanks good luck dr10
thank you very much ryano
Let me guess canna ? cannabanana
man I asked a legit question and got shit on
so fuck it jakethepanda
Hi everyone. As Brendan mentioned, he will be wrapping up the AMA. @brendaneich Thank you for your time. 1nfinite
thanks @brendaneich , learned a lot just from the terminology you've been using. Will spend time looking into all this, but your project sounds great ryano
Still dude, it's not good if you are predictably the one causing trouble brendaneich
@dr10 here's the "Fast" money shot cannabanana
well some people can't all be agreeable brendaneich
uploaded this image: Pasted image at 2017-05-09, 10:33 AM Add Comment ryano
You are the only one where this is an ongoing issue
It's bad for our community cannabanana
no, it's not. it's good because I give a different perspective on things. I'm not like you and I don't agree.
you think the success of ark has been on the backs of all the "good" ones? brendaneich
@cannabanana us taking ETH and me giving the reasons why we won't multiply risk is not me shitting on you -- we will have to just miss out on you this time. i wish we could take multiple currencies but it's an exchange problem at this point. maybe XCATs help in future cannabanana
I asked a legit question about what if it fails. what about hte investors?
is that not a legit question? 1nfinite
WHAT ABOUT CONSUMERS???? cannabanana
if you want me to put money in, I want to put in something I believe in
not something I dont mike
yes, if they want to stick with ETH, it's their call. Obviously plenty of ICOs have been successful with it, so it will continue in the future. cannabanana
consumers too, it's the same thing if it fails then the system is gone then the peopel who bought the bat to use are all out too. brendaneich
@cannabanana that's (https://arkecosystem.slack.com/archives/C41QFMCKH/p1494351381880292
) fair and it means in a market, sometimes you don't make a deal -- you hold out for better product later (edited)
calling names and getting mad because someone won't do what you demand -- not fair. my 2 cents anyway ryano
You can't be calling guests jerk offs and trolls every time they don't tell you what you want. This is an ongoing issue with you. Nobody else here is lashing out at people except you and there are nearly 2000 people here.
jamiec79 oh lordy... jamie exits the room quietly cannabanana
you know what nm techbytes
@brendaneich appreciate you stopping by today. Will put AMA on Reddit for others to find out more about your project. brendaneich
@techbytes thanks for having me ryano
Thanks Brendan nt91
Brendan thank you for coming ominous.shark
Yeah, thanks for the AMA! @brendaneich ARK community appreciates it! mike
thanks for taking the time to talk with us about BAT, good luck with it. michaelthecryptoguy
:goodjob: Brendan and :goodluck: with the BAT ICO (edited) boldninja
Thanks @brendaneich - good luck with BAT brendaneich
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